GTS in OZ

[askalbert]

Vehicle type: GTS

This car was purchased by myself last year from a former local Mini specialist who had bought it the year prior from the importer. It came with a swag of receipts (currently in a "safe place" ie not where I usually store such, need to locate again) which indicate a lot of work done in  the past, both suspension and engine which I believe was a replacement. It likely has SA club and race / time trial history (no cage fitted, but evidence of driver's harness).

From the original sale listing:

1974 LEYLAND MINI GTS 1275cc TWIN SU COOPER S ENGINE AND MODS / LOTS OF EXTRAS

1974 LEYMAND MINI GTS
IMPORTED DIRECT FROM SOUTH AFRICA ND HAVE ALL IMPORT PAPERS
VERY ORIGINAL CONDITION AND PAINT
HAD A LOT OF WORK DONE BY PREVIOUS OWNER.
UPGRADED REBUILT 1275cc COOPER S ENGINE WITH TWIN SU
UPGRADED HEAVY DUTY SUSPENSION
NEW STEERING RACK AND ALL FRONT END REBUILT
MINI LITE WHEELS WITH REAR FINNED DRUMS
HAVE A COMPLETE FILE WITH WORK DONE OVER LAST 6 YEARS

So car is described as a 74. Wiper motor dated 7th month 77, rear boot lock 19th week 83 (replacement). Boot has gap to body top R/H side so likely boot or body not straight there, ripples inside boot next to light. Interior seems similar in type to other cars shown here but in cloth. Dash is home made in timber with original instruments. Steering wheel is a replacement with Austin logo taped to centre. Hood lining removed and furry material glued to roof, so possibly had a tall driver at one stage. When sold in SA tyres were shagged, new tyres came with vehicle in 165/55R12 size. Rims fairly recent. Rear attachment point for driver's shoulder harness.

Body and car # have XAD2S prefix, body # 05xxxx.
Engine # has 12HEH prefix. SA 1300 block with top mounted oil filter.
Twin 1 1/4" SU carbs.
Original colour "Opal White"
Larger fuel tank, later tail lamps with reversing lenses. (Carello)
Spare 12" steel (without rear spacing ring)
S/Steel trims on external vertical seams (aftermarket)

The following photos were included in the original sales listing:

[Vinay-RS]

Wow, it actually looks really good, and even if it was reshelled, it is in great shape.

[Jared Mk3]

The engine number points to a 1275E motor, not GTS or Cooper S. It more than likely has been worked as well. I like that steering wheel

[minatic]

Is the engine number punched on the block or do you have a engine number on aluminium plate riveted to the block?

As Jared said the engine perfix points to a 1257E motor and not a GTS one. The GTS one has 12H GTS xxxx perfix on a aluminuim plate riveted to the block.

The 1100 and GTS blocks in South Africa have the engine number on a aluminium plate riveted to the block. The 1275E block has the engine number punched on the block. All three blocks look the same. The other thing to check is how many studs the head has.

- All GTS engines have 11 studs with double springs
- 1100 engine had both 11 studs or 9 studs with single springs
- 1275E engines all have 9 studs with single springs

I hope this helps you to identify which engine you have.

[askalbert]

Thanks for all the replies.

So to sum up, yes the body is original for a GTS, my main concern when I purchased, not then knowing any of the SA details.
Block and head definitely later, 12HEH stamped with no hammer drive rivet holes, not an 11 stud head. But worked for sure, it goes like a cut snake off the mark. Perhaps not enough carburation at higher revs, but unlikely to be an issue at this stage.
Interior is not to my taste, but again tastes vary and if known to possibly be original may stay a while. Won't be binned. Could well be from a 1275E. Instruments are original.

From what I was told, the exporter was in SA at the time purchasing luxury vehicles when this was for sale, and was included in a shipment. He knew the former Mini specialist who first bought the car from him, and later advertised it for sale through a local club prior to a display day where I first saw it. I saw a 1996 Rover Cooper 35 LE at that show which I was interested in (the seller didn't know what he had, having purchased it from Texas as a 1976 car). My "cash plus cafe racer" offer on that was knocked back (I suppose I was too honest telling him what his car was) so I went back to have another look at the GTS. In a way, it found me as prior to the display day, I wasn't looking for anything. The only other person interested wanted to cut it up a little for his own take on automotive genius, so it came my way.  It has remained at my house as a kind of curio until I moved it recently to do some work on the verandah, and my interest was revived.

I have been able to contact the exporter who now has passed on the details of the former owner, an architect in Cape Town who I have emailed for some more details on the car. So progress.

So far have also emailed Ryno re purchasing his book, another car tragic here has a copy but it is in storage. So within a month I should be a little better informed.

My first thoughts were to paint it yellow with a wide blue racing stripe down the centre, then later metallic light blue with silver or grey roof, but it may well be white, having pulled out the back seat and found the crayon marker and wavy plate "Opal White" was the result.

Big issues now are ID for the body, firstly I need to find where the car number is stamped as that needs to be verified for registration. (Body number was for ID during manufacture). So if someone can shed a light on that for SA cars, it will help. (It may be in the rearmost bonnet drain lip, ie remove bonnet and search.)

The other thing I need to do for my own reassurance is positively identify the vehicle's age either by comparison with production data from known vehicles, or by date stamp on minor components that may be original to the vehicle.

Thanks Again.
A.

[minatic]

Hi,


Interesting story. It is a pity about the Rover one. That would have been nice to own.

Well regarding body stamping. Please just check on the cross member under the passengers seat. You will need to remove the carpets to check for a plate that has reverse stamping on it. Check the hole cross member if necessary including on the drivers side. I just want to make sure that there is nothing. GTS bodies shells don't have any body plates there if I remember correctly. If there is just check what the stamping says. I just want to make sure 100% it is not a 1275E body shell. 

Have you checked if the wheel arches have an extended lip on them. Maybe remove one of the plastic wheel arch to check. Now as to where the body stamping of the GTS is, I will have to leave it for the GTS Gurus as they will know where to find it or if they even have any. 
I know a little of the 1275E one as I own one and I know where to find those body tags. 

I hope some else will be able to help you or even post any pictures.
Good luck and keep us posted on your findings.

[askalbert]

Thanks for that. I have located the body number tag which is on the passenger side rear parcel shelf. This gives me the confidence the shell is correct. If it wasn't it would not be the end of the story for me, just part of the car's story.

What I am now looking for is the car number ID. This is needed for registration purposes. Not the tag at the front which is present, but a stamping on the body, or on a welded on tag.

I will have a look across the crossmember tomorrow, however a little effort will be involved as someone has helpfully used a ton of contact adhesive and it will be a pain (the seats will need to come out).

The post above has been ammended with a few photos.

[Enzio]

I am not an expert in the field, but as far as I know the minis do not have the body ID or VIN's stamped on the body - only on the stamped plate riveted on the front slam panel.

I am not sure if this was different in other countries of manufacture.

[askalbert]

I had no idea myself about where to look for vehicle ID before finding this forum. Having read through a few posts (ie using a "GTS" search command) I noticed the reference to the body number tag being on the rear passenger side of the parcel shelf. Fortunately mine is present and unmolested, and agrees with the riveted tag on the front. The format is XAD2S - 05xxxx.

Generally speaking, in a production situation the newly welded shell, referred to a "body in white" needs an ID so that its build sheet can be followed for later parts supply to and fitment on the assembly line, as well as the other processes involved to the body unit, for example to spot weld the fender extension lips to later mount the GTS flares on. This is the "Body Number" which generally is stamped on an early part to form the shell proper, in this case the rear parcel shelf upper surface. The plate on my car has wavy edges and is relief stamped from the rear as mentioned above. It contains the body number and paint code, in my case "Opal White". The other place the paint code is referenced is in production crayon marker on the back seat vertical panel, written in an "upwards" direction as that panel was first hung from the right hand edge, with the left hand edge towards the ground the writing was initially level. Perhaps this panel being painted in full provided a reference to ensure the other panels matched this colour and minimising production errors.

The build sheet would also reference another number, the car number which is the ID of the proposed vehicle allocated to a dealer order. The numerical difference between the two numbers will be similar from car to car, but vary as bodies in white are sent back for rectification or replacement before the car number is assigned. Once the car number is assigned, the production parts assigned to that vehicle order are sent to the various points on the assembly line for fitment. Thus the completed vehicle once all "OK" checks have been passed has this number and is sent to the dealer. This is the number used for registration. In this case, the vehicle predates the VIN system and the car number has a different number of digits, with a little less information in total, mainly car type and sequential manufacturing number following. The car number may be referred to as the chassis number. The VIN system replaced the car number, with a more universal denotation of manufacturer, type, year and ID.

The car number may have a format as follows (I am guessing):

XA - Model ie Mini
D   - Engine ie 1275, GT etc
2S   - Body ie Two Door Sedan

And so on. In this case the Body Number and Car Number have the same prefix, perhaps to avoid confusion during the build.

In Australia, all vehicle types started with a car number "501" in an effort to convince the buying public that they were not purchasing an untested vehicle. Body numbers began at "001" hence we look for a difference of about 500 between the two, and to find out what build number your car was of that type, just subtract 500. Mostly this was in the engine bay area, position changing at times during different manufacturing eras.

The UK a little different, a riveted plate in the engine bay (nicely to the front where it would disappear during accident or rust repair) supplemented by a "FE" or front end number spot welded to the front floorpan. Similarly, FE numbers when referenced to other vehicles help identify time of manufacture, but without reference to vehicle type.

In the UK, the Cooper and Cooper S shared the same prefix (Austin differed to Morris). Factory records are needed to confirm which (but may not be conclusive in all cases as engine numbers for both at times had a similar prefix).

In Australia, Cooper had a different prefix to Cooper S.

GT was similar format to Cooper S (But not the same).

When I go to register the vehicle, I need to have the car number stamped or welded somewhere for roadworthy inspection. A riveted plate will not be accepted, similarly if the engine number was riveted on it would be removed and the number stamped to the block. If no ID is stamped to the shell I will be given (ie stamped in) a generic police reference number (yeuch).

(In period, engines which arrived complete from the UK had their plates chiseled off and hung on the brake line at the master cylinder with a piece of string (most were lost). Engines that were made up from CKD kits didn't have the hammer drive rivet holes.)

Similarly, I need to be absolutely sure of year of manufacture, it is far too hard to change at a later date. I am happy to pass on my car details to a forum registrar who collects vehicle details for this purpose.

Here is a low-res photo of the body tag:

[Dion]

The first pictures show the car at Killarney outside Shawn Bester and Stephen Whiteheads garage. The red GTS and gray mini belong to Stephen. I'll ask them if they know the car.